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Well, no...

Ok, so my favourite store has just informed me that new G-Star collection had arrived. But, hell no, you won't see me walking around in these... Looks like some extra space for a nappy or two. Yeesh, I'll wait for next one I guess.

Comments

paterson_si
Dec. 18th, 2009 11:28 pm (UTC)
So you are saying Dutch are exporting their godawful stuff to Slovenia? :) Although they presented this collection on their "global" website.

And I don't want to envision me in loincloth pants. LOL
tkn1114
Dec. 19th, 2009 02:36 am (UTC)
seminar
What companies put on the runway does not always end up in the stores. Store buyers buy for their regional taste. This is very common. Emporio Armani in Milan does not necessarily carry the same stuff than the store in NY. That's why collections always do different groups and bodies to cover all markets. This is standard practice when you sell worldwide. You will see some unbelievably gawdy Armani black label which is the couture line, but that doesn't mean the buyer for the stores in NY or Paris or compatible places will buy that ugly stuff for their stores. Otoh, a buyer for the Armani stores in the Middle East, or Russia, or Eastern Europe will buy that shit up because that's their market's taste. The Far East is another story yet.

Taste is very cultural and subjective.

I could be wrong but I doubt if you'll see those loincloth pants in Holland, UK, France or Italy, for ex... Otoh, it seems like it's a hit in Slovenia or nearby markets. It must be, else why would they carry that in your local store? Surely, they know their base clientele? YOU may not like it, but that doesn't mean the rest of Ljubljana doesn't like it either? I'd love to see the sales inventory data. I'm willing to bet money they're buy up a storm of all the shit you call ugly.

Now, I know that Central and Eastern Europe and Russia are 3 different markets. But they're not incompatible in taste.

By the look of many of the Russians in NY (that means: not all), it's not too far from reality :-.0) Now, I know that may sound mean, but that's not something I make up, it's my professional assessment of the reality of a market niche. The Russians here are flashy in a nouveau-riche sort of way. They like a lot of metallics, lots of colored furs in the tackiest colors and finishes, they wear an excessive amount of gawdy jewelry, they need brand logos all over themselves. But it's not the same thing as the Germans in the 80's (the Escada look).

This is just a fact. Designers don't control taste. They cater to it.

If you see tacky fashion, that's because the consumers = the people who actually shell out the $$$ to buy the shit have tacky taste. Not because designers want to introduce tacky ideas. For what reason? It's simply because these are the people who are buying, and that's why the fashion looks like that.

Accept it :-.D
paterson_si
Dec. 19th, 2009 08:08 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
But I can still not like it, right?

*my last attempt of preserving decent taste in this country* LOL

But, yes, of course you are right and marketing people in G-Star apparently realised Slovenia is a dump-hole for some rather bizarre experiments. And who knows, if it holds here, it might even land somewhere else.

As for Russians and stuff... Yes, they seriously want themselves to look "expensive", and that expensive is written in just their own book. I'd probably call it too obvious. It's not about style and good manufacturing, it's about glitz and bling and... well... just shiny. Funny, you can similar stuff here when you compare people who "originate" in Slovenia and peopke whos roots come from southern parts of ex-Yugoslavia. They just have to have all sorts of obvious stuff on them; gold, shiny items, brand names -the bigger the better, so they are really easy to spot. In some ways they do sport some sort of ghetto "fashion". I guess most of Slovenia is more or less on a more subtle side; not that this is an extremely fashion conscious country, but I have to say that at least younger generations do pay attention to what they wear. But... they seems to be staying away from rather radical experimenting. There's too much Austria in Slovenia to be able to handle that.

Yes, I accepted it, alright. :)
tkn1114
Dec. 20th, 2009 12:35 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
Now you're hard on Slovenians :-.) It's ok. Evolution takes time. You should have been in Italy in the 80's. Girls would be walking around in Chanel glasses, Americano jeans (O god, those were it back then), LV handbag, Moschino belt and Prada shoes - all at the same time. Everything had a logo on it. They looked like an outlet's sale window. But just about every single one of them followed the formula. This was Milan, Italy.

But from the designer/manufacturer's standpoint: it was a bonanza. All you had to do was slap a logo on any kind of ugliness and it sells. Then, we all got bored when everybody and his brother had the same thing. And we moved on.

But this trend is still very real in the US? Bling is the latest example of "moving on up". Nothing new.

So, you can't say that only the Russians or Eastern/Central Europe are guilty of this right now. The Western Europeans were doing this 20, 30 years ago. And now, it's the Eastern Europeans' turn. Cuz now, that region in the world is finally seeing some money after so long a period of reform and hardship.

What about the Chinese? The worst label whores and THEY CAN'T EVEN PUT IT TOGETHER RIGHT! LOL You should see them in NY. Their label of choice is Burberry's. Anything Burberry: handbags, scarves, glasses, key chains... anything that's identifiable. The same items Gucci was pushing on the "terroni" :-0.) of the world back in the day! But then, Burberry's simply does not go with prairie shirts in liberty prints, for God's sake! I don't care if Burberry's themselves are doing the look! But, sure nuff, that's what you see walking around on 5th ave.

This is simply not the case with the Japanese who are also label whores but know very well how to put it together right. The same can be said of the SOUTH Koreans, and the Chinese from Hong Kong.

This said, we should be fair to acknowledge that there is always a minority of the Chinese population both in China and abroad that's very elegant and understated - even eccentric. But, to be sure, they are a minority. The majority of those who have the $$$ to buy look like an influx of Chinese opera in western designer clothes.

What do you expect from a country where Matisse or Van Gogh or Pollock are religiously copied and sold for less than 20 bucks on the sidewalk instead of encouraging personal expression which is necessary to the arts but detrimental to the state, and promoting local talent which there is plenty of but not if they don't tow the party line? Aside from a handful of fine arts artists like Chen Wen Ling whose art is reflective of the reality in China but is more known in the West (and I don't know if his work is "all that" even though it's good and often powerful), the Chinese designers who are trying to break into the West are simply NOT on the same level than the Japanese designers who stormed the runways of the West in the 80's. NO MATCH. NOT EVEN CLOSE. NO WAY. NO HOW. In a word: NO :-0.)

The Chinese at FIT (Fashion Institute of Technology) here in NY are weak. They have no vision of their own. They have a very keen nose for trends which you do when you copy a lot :-0.) and anybody who's a designer should have that, anyway. But to develop a direction that's distinctively their own = I'm still waiting. I expect I'm gonna wait for a long time. Alas!

The Japanese, otoh, set and ruled the trends when they stormed the international fadshun scene in the 80's, like the Beatles take-over of the American music scene in the 60's. And the return to the 80's in fadshun right now proves that the Japanese influential imprint on style is more relevant and indelible than ever.

I blame communism. It ruined Russia's opulence and set the Chinese back at least 50 years in cultural evolution (listen to their music!)

Whereas Indian music is the biggest influence on western music today, Chinese music is still stuck somewhere between the wailings of 19th century Chinese opera and Mao's hearty marching bands.

But that's the reality, and that's why fadshun looks like what it looks like right now.
paterson_si
Dec. 20th, 2009 09:01 pm (UTC)
Re: seminar
I have to say I really enjoyed this thorough chapter of our seminar... I guess there's still a lot for me to be done with it comes to thinking about interlacing cultures...

xxx
tkn1114
Dec. 21st, 2009 12:59 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
Well, when I discuss, I discuss. Sorry! :-.)

I like that we don't always just twitter like the rest of LJ land. You've once said that you enjoy discussion too.

But I guess not "too" in-depth? I do have the tendency to go into it with someone who enjoys the same. I don't have a problem with twittering back and forth. That's fun, too. But once in a while it's good to have more meaningful conversation beyond one-liners. No?

Ok. but I guess we're done with this market talk :-.0)
paterson_si
Dec. 21st, 2009 01:04 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
Oh, no, we are not done. Yet. Just let me find some... resources. Yes, I enjoy a good discussion and you seem to master that. So it can be in-depth as well. :)
tkn1114
Dec. 21st, 2009 01:30 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
Oh, Ok. As you wish. All I meant to say is that I enjoy in-depth discussions with someone who does too. And you have said that you like that too. I mean that I don't want to be a drag and babble away when the other party is not on the same wavelength. It happens. And I don't want that.

But if it's mutual = by all means.

So talk on! :-.0)


paterson_si
Dec. 22nd, 2009 10:50 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
In 2010? :)
tkn1114
Dec. 22nd, 2009 07:02 pm (UTC)
Re: seminar
or thereafter. It's a date, as long as we're sincere. And I would wager that we are. C'est la classe ;-.)
paterson_si
Dec. 22nd, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC)
Re: seminar
We're sincere, yes. :)
tkn1114
Dec. 23rd, 2009 06:13 am (UTC)
Re: seminar
I know, I know.

XO